One Step Closer
May 6th, 2008I’ve never backed a candidate in a presidential election. Sure, I’ve voted out of duty and picked the one I thought best of the two options available. But never have I been so convinced of someone’s leadership that I was compelled to vote for them. Until now.
Time after time Barack Obama has impressed me beyond measure. Tonight, his victory speech from North Carolina brought me to tears. Why? Is it because he’s a good orator? That’s part of it. To be able to rally a group of people together behind a vision is extremely important for a leader, although it’s not the only qualifier.
The main reason I back him is because he speaks about what I already believe in. I’m not talking sides of an issue here. I’m talking about something much deeper. He talks about a hope that has been within me for longer than this primary season has been around. A hope that sees the possible and desires to see it come true. As I listened tonight, I realized Obama isn’t even playing the same game - and that’s why he will win.
If you have 20 minutes, I highly reccommend watching his speech:
May 6th, 2008 at 11:15 pm
Looking better and better, tonight is another step in the right direction.
Clinton just can’t bring herself to concede. The narcissism and blind ambition is staggering, a stark contrast to Obama’s message and entire demeanor.
Andrew Sullivan sums it up well (on Clinton) :
“If you want another president whose own grip on reality has little relationship to the outside world, then you know who to vote for.”
You have a co-O-supporter in me, Andy! But you knew that.
May 6th, 2008 at 11:23 pm
Wow, Andrew Sullivan really hits it on the head. I completely agree with his comments - pandering to the gas tax holiday, reaching out to Burma, and Florida and Michigan, I was laughing at that point.
What’s amazing to me is that her own crowd doesn’t even seem to want to let her speak. She was constantly cut off - and sometimes she just continued which left her comments (that often were supposed to be meaningful) drown out in chants of “yes we will…” and the like. (Creative by the way, “yes we will” - sheesh!)
Here’s to change.
May 6th, 2008 at 11:41 pm
“In this country, justice can be won against the greatest odds. Hope can find it’s way back from the darkest of corners. And when we are told that we cannot bring about the change that we seek, we answer with one voice… yes we can.”
… and at that point I joined you, Andy, with tears in my eyes…
June 5th, 2008 at 12:15 pm
Isn’t it amazing that Obama can talk about hope and change, but not about Rev. Wright and Bill Ayers?
Isn’t there so much change with a candidate whose most frequent vote in his state senate wasn’t yes or no, but ‘present’?
Isn’t this a guy who can change America with his astounding rhetoric about emotions and unity?
I’m impressed that he’s done such a nice job of pulling the wool over your eyes with all of his talk about change. He’s not exactly an outsider… he’s more of an ambitious political swine than even Ted Kennedy.
FACT: Obama joined his former church out of political expediency, and has as much as stated so.
FACT: Obama has voted ‘present’ more times than ‘yea’ or ‘nay’ for any state bill while in the Illinois State Legislature.
FACT: Obama has had ties to Hamas (through a staff member), Bill Ayers (a confessed terrorist), and to Louis Farrakhan (a self-proclaimed ‘Black Hitler’).
Does this sound like hope and change? And I haven’t even started to talk about his stance on important issues like healthcare, national security, or foreign relations!?!?!
June 5th, 2008 at 12:34 pm
John,
Thanks for taking the time to comment. I’m not sure if you’ll see this because you didn’t leave a valid email address. I’m not afraid of dialog so don’t be afraid of leaving your info - I won’t be mad
I don’t think it’s about pulling the wool over anyone’s eyes. Everyone has their thoughts, ideas, policies, etc. You and I do. Every candidate does. Obama speaks of what is missing from the country - hope and unity. We have a depressed culture (financially, racially, globally). If I can vote for someone who says they want to see that changed, then I’m all for it. I find it interesting that Obama gets the majority of votes in the white w/ college education camp. Does that mean that all of us with at least one degree must be easy to fool? I’m not saying that to call people without a degree stupid, but to think that all of those educated people are somehow push-overs is wrong.
We also have not so savory companions. I’m not responsible for anyone else’s thoughts, actions, or comments, either is Obama. If Obama was daily attending meetings of hate groups, etc. it would be different. But this sort of witch hunt is not necessary. Each candidate has so many connections that it doesn’t take long to find someone we don’t like. I recently joined linkedin.com - which is a social networking site for business. I have about 30 contacts of people I know and have worked with. from that, the site tells me that I have 40k contacts that are 2nd or 3rd degree contacts. Can you judge me by those people?
Yes, the fact that all of the candidates have been out campaigning these last 17 months means that they really aren’t doing their job in the senate. None of them are. That’s a fault of the system, not the person. I wouldn’t be opposed to saying any senator wanted to run for office like this must first give up their seat in the senate. I would assume that somehow that work continues, but I don’t put much hope in it.
I stand behind Obama, not because I agree 100% on all of his policies, not because who his pastor is/was/isn’t - but because of his leadership. My thought (and that’s what it is, my thought) is that this country needs a leader, both internally (for the US) and externally (the represents us to the world). I think that Obama is the most fitting candidate for that.
Is that hope and change? Yes, to me it is.
June 6th, 2008 at 12:45 am
I agree whole heartedly with John. To answer your questions yes he has pulled the wool over the eye’s over those with degree’s because the education system is very liberal. And I find it extremely foolish to follow a candidate whom you dont agree with his policies. His policies are what dictate what he believes.
My challenge to you is pick 5 policies of his that you agree with check his statements and give me references to the policies you agree with. If all you can say is you agree with his message of hope then I pose this question what is his “hope” in?
June 6th, 2008 at 7:24 am
Thanks for joining in RJ. I appreciate your thoughts.
I would say that the blanket statement that all higher education is liberal and therefore easily mislead is grossly exaggerated. And what do you mean by liberal in this case anyway? Are you speaking about higher education trying to instill what would be typically democratic ideas on policy? Is seems too easily a scapegoat to brand all education and students in that way. We have to give credit to all people (in all groups, liberal and conservative) to be free thinkers.
As for not agreeing with his policies - it’s that I know I won’t agree with every one of them. There are some that I will and won’t agree with. That is that way for either candidate. But my main focus is not policy. I know that the president doesn’t always have the ability to affect major policy change. For instance, one of the big points about Bush was that many people thought his pro-life stance would help overturn Roe vs Wade. It’s been 8 years now and no such luck. So, especially with policies that are a little far fetched, like Huckabee’s getting rid of the IRS (interesting idea!) I try not to focus too heavily or put much credence into them.
In other words, I’m not interested in voting on one policy alone. I’m interested in a variety of things including policy, leadership, vision, ability to represent us on the world stage, etc. And this is why I back Obama.
However, I like your challenge and I will accept
Please note that again, these are my thoughts on the issue and you and I may disagree on the issue. I’m not attempting for us to have the same ideas policy, I’m attempting to answer your questions about my support for Obama.
Kate Wilson sent me this link a while back: http://www.2008electionprocon.org/
From their about page:
So, let’s start picking some from Obama:
“Should the US continue to support an embargo against Cuba?”
Obama: Pro (I agree with his statement, McCain is also Pro)
“Should the death penalty remain a legal option in America?”
Obama: Pro (I disagree, I’m against the death penalty, McCain is Pro)
“Has the No Child Left Behind Act been effective at improving public education?”
Obama Con (I agree with him having been married to a teacher, McCain is PRO)
“Should drilling for oil in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge (ANWR) be allowed?”
Obama Con (I agree with him, McCain is also Con)
“Are more federal regulations on guns and ammunition needed?”
Obama Not Clearly Pro or Con (I’m a pacifist, so don’t care for guns, but I get hunting and protection. I don’t get the assult weapons though, McCain is Con)
And one more for fun…
“Should Americans be allowed to purchase their prescription drugs from other countries?”
Obama Pro (I’m Pro, McCain is Pro)
———————
I hope this helps answer your questions a little. If there are specific policies that you want to talk about, I’d be happy to.
Your last question was about hope. Hope is about a desire to see something come to be. I hope in eternal life with God, through Christ and the Holy Spirit. I hope for a long and healthy relationship with my wife. And I hope for change in the government that brings it back to being run by and for the people - not just by the lobbyists, etc. Hope has a part that is about longing for something to come to be - it also helps move us to work toward that goal. All three of the goals I mentioned I am willing to work towards.
Blessings (especially if you read this whole thing!)
andy
June 6th, 2008 at 11:01 am
Don’t worry, not giving a real email isn’t stopping me from checking the website again. I do my own event-polling (sorry, technical term). Also, while I don’t plan on sidetracking the conversation, I would like to answer the rebuttals you made to my comment. I will let RJ discuss and dispute your selections of policy.
To answer a couple of your points:
1. Am I to be judged by the people I associate myself with?
Yes and No. On an individual level, no. Matthew 7 states ‘Do not judge. Do not judge lest ye be judged. For in the same measure you use, so shall it be measured unto you.’ (sorry for the mixing of translations there). As an individual, I do not have any right to judge another human being. However, I am not judging Senator Obama on a personal level. I am interviewing him as a potential employee, and not just any employee, but the person who will be shaping corporate policy for my company: the government. As such, one of the keenest measures of the character of a person is his references, those people who associate with him. On this level, Senator Obama cannot hold a candlestick to Senator McCain.
2. Having a large ‘educated’ voter base means Obama isn’t pulling the wool over anyone’s eyes:
Firstly: The voting phenomenon you have referenced has only been occurring in the primaries versus Senator Clinton. This is largely due to two large segments of people: recent graduates (the young) and educators. While I will not go into the history of why these two groups just about always vote towards the left, it has been the case since Vietnam that those two groups have been conjoined to the Democrat cause. This is not just a Senator Obama hysteria.
3. Senator Obama can change the ‘depressed culture’:
Senator Obama had the chance to start ‘changing our depressed culture’ when he was in the Illinois State Legislature. He chose instead to engage in political positioning. Instead of standing up for change and hope and unity and a whole lot of other warm fuzzy feelings, he decided to vote ‘present’ on any controversial issue. That definitely sounds like leadership material to me: ignore an issue because it’s controversial until it goes away. At least you can’t be blamed for being on the wrong side of an issue.
Senator Obama has had a remarkable life story. I respect him for the challenges he has overcome and for his success in a tough world. However, I refuse to put on the rose colored glasses when I listen to his rhetoric. He is as much hot air as Senator Reid and Speaker Pelosi; and a bit more hot air than what Al Gore thinks there is.
I sat and performed my absentee job interview among all of the different candidates.
While I would have preferred to have a person like former Senator Fred Thompson in the Oval Office, I can definitely say that Senator McCain is a much better alternative to the inexperience and misguided notions that make up Senator Obama.
June 6th, 2008 at 12:06 pm
@ John : when you make statements regarding judging people on their associations - such as “On this level, Senator Obama cannot hold a candlestick to Senator McCain” - but make no mention of McCain’s (at the time) opportunistic dream and plan for an endorsement by the, ahhh, shall we say ‘controversial’ John Hagee, you leave a gaping hole in your arguments on the topic of character (or guilt) by association.
Personally, I’d take what I perceive as the motivational rhetoric of Wright over Hagee’s revolting hatred and conspiratorial and apocalyptic Rapture Drama any day… but it doesn’t matter since BOTH of the presidential candidates have rejected these endorsements by religious leaders who had hoped to gain power and influence for their own selfish causes.
Let’s keep the playing field and the rules “fair” and “balanced.” As for the network that proclaims to be both of those, well, you’d be better served reading up on ALL sides of the issues and the people, because the ridiculous lambasting and character bashing when it comes to Barack Obama is getting unbearable, and we’ve only just begun. Heh.
June 6th, 2008 at 12:25 pm
As a former right-wing, Republican, white evangelical… I want to say that if you’re looking for a chuckle these days, Limbaugh, Hannity, and O’Reilly are going absolutely apoplectic with frustration.
Yup, I still listen in to see if where my head and heart are at these days at is wrong, or if I’ve been misled, or if I’m being too emotional and “hopeful.”
There are some in the media whose messianic view of Obama is just as revolting to me as the Right’s view of him as incompetent boob.
The last time I voted for someone’s “policies,” someone who had experience, was a business leader… he turned out to be a liar AND an incompetent boob.
Anyone who bought the “I’m a compassionate conservative” crap from Bush almost HAS to vote for Obama just to balance out the universe. There’s nothing remotely ‘compassionate’ about the policies he’s put in motion since being in power, and there’s definitely nothing ‘conservative’ about the incredible debt and overspending he and his cronies have been responsible for.
At least this time I’ll have voted for hope and love and a dream…. instead of voting from a place of fear and dread.
June 6th, 2008 at 1:09 pm
[...] I’ve been contemplating a post on this very topic, but my friend Andy’s blog has a nice conversation ongoing [...]
June 6th, 2008 at 2:24 pm
@ Daniel:
1. Sen. McCain’s association with John Hagee:
Senator McCain was not associated with John Hagee prior to Hagee’s endorsement, so to compare that endorsement with the two decade relationship shared by Rev. Wright and Sen. Obama is not an honest comparison. It would be the same to say that me deciding not to do business with a potential client should carry the same emotional weight as a divorce. I make no apology for John Hagee’s statements, nor has Sen. McCain.
2. The subject of President George Walker Bush:
Congratulations on finding the campaign platform of the Democrat party: “We’re not Bush!”
While the reality of President Bush has not lined up with ideals of his supporters, and I will be the first to admit I was hoping for more, to promote yourself by tearing down another is not exactly a ‘unity’ inspiring argument. In addition, it hides any objective rationale when discerning which candidate is more qualified to be president. Furthermore, Sen. McCain, by a simple application of logic and reason, can no more be President Bush than Sen. Obama.
I can’t blame you for hating Bush, to be smart enough to arrange a war on lies AND still be considered incompetent is quite an astonishing feat. I mean, if I had access to the same information you do in forming these opinions, I would certainly be beside myself with blame and loathing.
Excuse the sarcasm there, I couldn’t help myself.
3. Obama-haters:
Apparently there are some Obama backers who aren’t educated. There is definitely one who has shown an inability to read. I did state that I respect Sen. Obama. I did not mention a hatred, loathing, nor any type of ill-will towards the Senator. I lauded his ability to overcome the challenges life has sent his way. I DID make the point that he is not qualified to be my next CEO.
4. Actual People:
I’m glad you’ve decided that since I don’t have an email address I don’t exist. That means you can marginalize and forget about not only myself, but the millions of people in the world that can’t afford computers, internet access, or any other luxury you currently enjoy. It must make it much easier to sleep at night.
5. Policy based decisions:
I do make my decisions based on the candidates stance on issues. National Security, energy independence, Social Security reform, and economic development, and abortion are the issues I make my decisions based from. While Sen. McCain does not meet every issue I would desire him to, 4 out of 5 is a much easier lump to swallow than 0 out of 5.
6. Obama zealotry
I submit to you that the fervor you and your ilk are caught up in is not a rational decision made by someone who agrees with the majority of your stance on issues, but instead is a result of a religious feeling invoked when using the words ‘hope’, ‘change’, and ‘unity’. Sen. Obama has to this point ran a brilliant campaign talking about nothing of consequence. He has instead focused on the emotions he can insipre with his eloquence and his circumstances. I am not so foolish to think that Sen. Obama can sit down with stated enemies and use his rhetoric to ‘inspire’ change.
I would like to conclude this post by thanking pianodork for showing the courtesy of putting up with my comments without any of the vitriol shown by some others, and for answering them in the same manner in which they were posted: that of intelligent debate and not emotional outrage.
June 6th, 2008 at 3:27 pm
@ John : well, I’d call it “passionate discourse” as opposed to “vitriol” or “emotional outrage,” but I’ll address your response just the same (”vitirol” in my book would be phrases such as your “FACT : Obama has had ties to Hamas (through a staff member)”… c’mon, man… that’s way beyond reasonable debate) …
re: 1. Obama/Wright vs McCain/Hagee :
I would actually make the case that disavowing someone considered a 20+ year friend by Obama, while being direct and forthright about the problems he has with the views expressed by said friend, is more honorable than courting the endorsement of a hate-spewing, religious bigot like Hagee as McCain did - apparently without vetting Hagee’s decades-old viewpoints.
re: 2. the subject of Bush :
I’m not “tearing down another,” - nor am I “promoting [my]self” - I’m stating my disenchantment and disappointment with Bush and his so-called conservatism, while the candidate I back for president in 2008, Barack Obama, has kept his word 100% and has not, to date, engaged in any “tearing down” to my knowledge.
and your comment on Bush being “smart enough to arrange a war on lies AND still be considered incompetent is quite an astonishing feat,” well, I don’t believe Bush is smart enough for that, no. He is, however, the visible person put forth by a vast political power structure, and there are now reports (McClellan’s book, NYTimes, and many others) of exactly how much he/they knew, and when. Interesting reading, at the very least.
re: 3. ‘Obama-haters’ :
My passion got the best of me. But I do think connecting Obama with Hamas is specious and vitriolic and falls much closer to the world of ‘hate’ than ‘educated discourse.’
re: 4. ‘Actual People’ :
I just lend more credence to online communications when not obscured by anonymity. Use your real name, actual website, email address. It just shows you stand behind your words and opinions… surely I’m not alone in this view.
re: 5. Policy based decisions :
Making your decision based on issues is to be commended… no problem there. If you agree with McCain on 4 out 5 issues, he should get your vote.
I’m not posting on random websites denouncing his character or calling him part of some great Pro-Israel conspiracy due to his associations. Deal with Obama’s candidacy on issues and we can talk write and respond all day long.
And, actually, I agree with Andy… I don’t agree with Obama on everything, but I know he won’t change his stripes once he’s in power (and I’m not claiming McCain WILL, he seems a stand-up guy, as well), and I don’t vote for president on policies AT ALL anymore… I don’t care what Obama’s stance is abortion - easily the most fruitless political litmus test in America these days. I want what he promises - to bring people together to solve problems, to make progress, to build a better world for our children. To continue to amplify the abortion debate at the presidential level isn’t helping either side, and keeps everyone digging in their heels for a philosophical tug-of-war where no progress will ever be made.
re: 6. Obama zealotry :
regarding my (and my “ilk”s) “foolish” and “irrational” decision to support Obama’s approach of “sit[ting] down with our stated enemies,” well, I leave you with these two quotes :
“He dares to be a fool, and that is the first step in the direction of wisdom.” - J. Huneker
“If one does not understand a person, one tends to regard him as a fool.” - C. Jung
June 6th, 2008 at 4:18 pm
Wow. I wish I could write a bunch, but I must get some work done this afternoon, so I’ll make this brief (maybe). Thank you both for continuing this conversation.
John, in regard to your 11am post. I respect your thoughts and appreciate you taking the time to bring up some of the issues that concern you. Specifically the issue about voting “present” is interesting to me and cause me to research it a bit more.
A quick google search came up with a helpful article (for my understanding) from the NY Times. After that I searched for the public record of both Obama’s and McCain’s senate votes. I found them here and here, respectively. I’d be interested in looking into them further when I have time.
Yes, the educated voter statistics are while competing vs Clinton and I’m not saying that statistic would ring true or not true in the general election. My point is this group is not a bunch of brainwashed, kool-aid drinking voters. And I’m not trying to say that any candidates voters are, I’m just defending myself as a college grad, who is also in seminary (master’s level) as being hoodwinked by some sweet talking guy.
I appreciate your stated respect for Obama, as I also respect McCain. One thing I would do note is that there are sly attacks on Obama, which I’m not sure if you mean or not, but which come off poorly and/or emotional (in my estimation). For example:
Rather than maybe saying:
I don’t mean to tell you how to write, I’m just showing that emotionalism comes from both sides (Dan’s “haters” comments, which he acknowledge as over the top)
Other comments
It is the standard online to try to be open about who you are if to be taken seriously, so I’d agree that an email address would be useful. I do respect John’s willingness to come back and converse though. I think people get sick of any Jack or Jill leaving stupid comments (say on youtube) about something they hate but not being interested in conversation. I’m sorry that my comments about John’s email have created more discussion than probably needed. I just wasn’t sure if it was a “flamer” (the stupid youtube type person) or someone interested in dialog. (P.S. - if you don’t know who pianodork is, it’s me, Andy. My login for my site is pianodork - just to be open about it!)
I haven’t read the whole article yet, but this graph really jumped out at me (reminds me that little lies lead to bigger and bigger ones):
John said:
I disagree. I do believe that Obama is talking about the most important issue - how this government is working. If the system is broken, it can be fixed. That’s what I hear. It’s my desire to see it fixed, hence my vote.
And it’s not about how he gives good speeches, it’s that he has a vision for what something can be and speaks to that. I think when he sits with our stated enemies, he won’t woo them because of his rhetoric, he will converse on a level of vision. Where can we go? What can we do?
@ Dan: I do think policy is important, but I do think there are more than the standard 3 or 4 that I always tend to hear about (abortion, gay marriage, guns). I do agree that the constant berating of the few doesn’t help anyone and only digs deeper divides between people.
Ok, my mind hurts a bit (been staring at a screen all day at work) so I’m going to stop now. I hope that what I said comes across well, even if we don’t all agree on it.
peace
Andy
June 6th, 2008 at 5:11 pm
This is my final post on the subject ( not that I don’t want to beat up the subject until everyone sees things my way [read: human nature and pride] ).
1. Online Presence:
The whole point of blogs online is to allow a person to express and vent they’re emotions, ideas, understandings and allow (if said person desires) a level of anonymity. Forums are just for that purpose. I happen to have accounts on several forums (Elder Scolls, OC, and sever video game based clan sites). I do not allow anyone at all to see my email addresses if i can help it, just like I do not give out my cell or home phone numbers. I also keep them unlisted. Does this make me less credible when I want to talk to someone over the phone?
2. ‘Obama haters’
I was merely bringing to light the fact that one of Obama’s staff members would regularly sit down with Hamas leaders as part of another job he concurrently held. This connection was not hidden from Obama nor from the rest of his staff. This is not specious, nor is it vitriolic.
My comments about Obama cited by Andy are personal beliefs regarding the capabilities of Sen. Obama for the Presidency.
3. Policy
I would argue against the viewpoint of repeating old arguments as being ‘heel digging’ behavior that doesn’t accomplish anything. Issues such as abortion, gun control, same-sex marriage, and others should be just as much to the fore as issues like National Security, the war on terror, and the like. These are social ideologies, just like the approach to terrorism, health care, and a slowing economy. To ignore an issue because it seems antiquated is not doing anyone justice. It is, instead, belittling those to whom it has a big impact.
I am not going to make arguments for abortion, against gun control, for lower taxes, or any of my other opinions. I am, instead, going to state that if these are the issues that I (and many others) wish to make our voting decision based on, then more power to us. I will say this about almost all of the issues I have mentioned: one way or the other, they have an immediate impact on lives, and should therefore be considered seriously, and not strewn about flippantly.
I thank you for your time and dialog on this issue. Good luck in November, and may the best candidate win!
June 6th, 2008 at 5:23 pm
Thanks for your final comments John, and also participating. I like your email address this time
Yeah, there is a line between anonymity and people just venting for no constructive purpose. You’re conversation has been anything but a pure rant, so regardless of if you leave anything besides your name, you’ve at least commented more than most.
I agree that there are some issues that are and will be important until they are resolved in some matter. My frustration with some of them is that they are they are often the only ones we hear about and often the only ones people tend to vote on. Does my sickness of them make them any less important, no. I do feel burned by my last two votes at the polls on that because I voted that way though, so I’m interested in broader picture things. That’s also a personality trait which I don’t want to fault others on, as I hope they don’t fault me.
I do look forward to seeing how everything unfolds in these next few months!
peace
-andy
June 17th, 2008 at 12:08 pm
At the risk of stoking a smoldering fire… Crooks & Liars has an interesting post on McCain’s recent (and various) opinions on several issues. Worth a look.
June 29th, 2008 at 9:18 pm
Thought you might like this as a continuation of the topic… more for you on McCain’s positions here.
I guess all that experience DOES come in handy now. Heh.
July 1st, 2008 at 10:24 am
That’s a pretty long list…
I’d hate to be a politician. I wouldn’t be able to speak because I’m sure I already contradict myself a hundred times every day, and no one is recording it, analyzing it and writing entire websites based around it.